Out in Front: The Front-Wheel-Drive Oldsmobile Toronado, Part 2


Some historians have called the Oldsmobile Tornado the precursor of modern FWD American cars, but if it was a pioneer, it was a lonely one. By our count, GM built 2,188,757 vehicles with the Unitized Power Package between 1966 and 1985, which is a very respectable figure by most standards, but represents only a tiny fraction of the corporation’s total car and truck production for the same period. Before the debut of the X-cars in 1979, GM’s total annual FWD production only exceeded 100,000 units on one occasion, a drop in the bucket for General Motors.

The UPP would have opened the door for GM to develop FWD versions of its other big V-8-powered cars and trucks — perhaps a FWD Vista Cruiser or Chevrolet Van — but they probably would have been niche items, particularly for what they probably would have cost. When Detroit finally embraced front-wheel drive in the late seventies, it was mostly because economic and political pressures were forcing manufacturers to develop a new generation of smaller cars with smaller engines. In that climate, there was even less need for big V-8-powered FWD cars than there had been before the OPEC embargo.

In that light, the original Toronado was not so much a missing link as an evolutionary sidebar, an interesting dead end. Indeed, GM’s later mass-market FWD cars had more conventional transverse front engine/transaxle drivetrains that bore little resemblance to the Toronado’s novel but expensive UPP, which even the Toro abandoned after 1985.

Former GM chairman Frederic Donner once remarked to designer Stan Wilen (who oversaw the styling development of the original Toronado) that cars like the Toronado were worthwhile even if they didn’t sell well because they demonstrated the corporation’s capacity for innovation. We’re sympathetic to that idea, but it’s hard to reconcile with Oldsmobile’s curious reluctance to promote the Toronado’s innovative features. By the mid-seventies, Toronado marketing barely mentioned that the car had front-wheel drive, much less that it offered both airbags and ABS.

In a way, the Toronado’s low-key image may have been to its advantage. The UPP Toronado survived far longer than many of GM’s early forays into new technology; Oldsmobile’s turbocharged F-85 Jetfire lasted only two years and Pontiac’s rope-drive Tempest survived only three. The Toronado was almost as radical a departure from the American norm as the Corvair, but generated no particular controversy and very little fuss. On the whole, the Toronado was commendably reliable and it addressed FWD foibles like torque steer better than did many later cars. Whatever else we can say about its style or performance, it worked, which is probably why the Toronado — unlike so many innovators — managed to outlive its own novelty. For that alone, it deserves a tip of the hat.



Special thanks to Gary Smith (who has his own excellent website on automotive design, Dean’s Garage), for putting us in touch with other former GM designers, and to Kathy Adelson of the GM Media Archive for her invaluable assistance in tracking down historical images for this article.


Our sources on the development and evolution of the Toronado included an AC Spark Plugs ad in Popular Science Vol. 191, No. 3 (September 1967), p. 21; C. Edson Armi, The Art of American Car Design: The Profession and Personalities (University Park, PA: Pennsylvania State University Press, 1988); the Auto Editors of Consumer Guide, “1966-1970 Oldsmobile Toronado,” HowStuffWorks.com, 15 October 2007, auto.howstuffworks. com/ 1966-1970-oldsmobile- toronado.htm, accessed 22 October 2010; Frank W. Ball and Lloyd T. Gill, “A Design Summary of the Toronado Engine,” General Motors Engineering Journal Vol. 13, No. 2 (Second Quarter 1966), pp. 12–15; Harry F. Barr, “Product Engineering in General Motors,” General Motors Engineering Journal Vol. 13, No. 1 (First Quarter 1966), pp. 9–10; John R. Beltz, “An Overall Look at the Toronado — A New Breed of Automobile,” General Motors Engineering Journal Vol. 13, No. 1 (First Quarter 1966), pp. 2–8; John B. Beltz; Andrew K. Watt; James H. Diener, et al, “Toronado — A New Breed,” SAE Technical Paper 660154, 1966; Ray T. Bohacz, “Mechanical Marvels: Chain Gang: Exploring Camshaft Drive Mechanism,” Hemmings Classic Car No. 12 (September 2005), pp. 66–69; John R. Bond, “Olds Toronado,” Car Life Vol. 12, No. 8 (November 1965): 32–35; “Car and Driver Road Test: Ford Thunderbird and Cadillac Eldorado,” Car and Driver November 1966, reprinted in Cadillac Eldorado 1967-78 Performance Portfolio, ed. R.M. Clarke (Cobham, England: Brooklands Books Ltd., ca. 2000); “Car Life 1966 Annual Award for Engineering Excellence: Oldsmobile Toronado: The Most Carefully Engineered and Thoroughly Tested Car,” Car Life Vol. 12, No. 8 (November 1965): 28–31; Chris Carlson, “Oldsmobile Toronado,” ClassicOldsmobile.com, 2005, encyclopedia.classicoldsmobile. com/toronado/index.html, accessed 13 November 2010; Linda Clark, “1964 Oldsmobile 4-4-2: Muscling in on the Ponycars,” Special Interest Auto #69 (June 1982), reprinted in Cutlass & 4-4-2 Muscle Portfolio 1964-1974, ed. R.M. Clarke (Cobham, England: Brooklands Books Ltd., ca. 1998), pp. 124-131; James H. Diener and Ralph W. Perkins, “A Summary of the Final Design and Development of the Toronado Chassis,” General Motors Engineering Journal Vol. 13, No. 2 (Second Quarter 1966), pp. 5–11; Donald R. Downie, “Development of Assembly Procedures for the Toronado,” General Motors Engineering Journal Vol. 13, No. 2 (Second Quarter 1966), pp. 34–42; Helen Jones Earley and James R. Walkinshaw, Setting the Pace: Oldsmobile’s First 100 Years (Lansing, MI: Oldsmobile Division of General Motors Corporation, 1996); Craig Fitzgerald, “1966 Revolutionary Ride,” Hemmings Classic Car #4 (January 2005), pp. 14–21; John Gunnell, ed., Standard Catalog of American Cars 1946-1975, Rev. 4th Ed. (Iola, WI: Krause Publications, 2002); Maurice D. Hendry, Cadillac: Standard of the World: The Complete History (Fourth Edition update by David R. Holls) (Princeton, N.J. : Automobile Quarterly, 1990); Dave Holls and Michael Lamm, A Century of Automotive Style: 100 Years of American Car Design (Stockton, CA: Lamm-Morada Publishing Co. Inc., 1997), pp. 172-187; Roger Huntington, “Toronado from Lansing,” Car Craft: 46–49, 76; George T. Jones, Robert J. Schultz, and Robert D. Tower, “Some Aspects of Body and Sheet Metal Design for the 1966 Toronado,” General Motors Engineering Journal Vol. 13, No. 2 (Second Quarter 1966), pp. 23–28; John F. Katz, “SIA comparisonReport: 1966 Oldsmobile Toronado vs. 1967 Cadillac Eldorado,” Special Interest Autos #168 (November-December 1998), reprinted in The Hemmings Motor News Book of Cadillacs (Hemmings Motor News Collector-Car Books), ed. Terry Ehrich (Bennington, VT: Hemmings Motor News, 2000), pp. 110-119; Lawrence J. Kehoe Jr. and Frank A. Sherwood, “Structure and Suspension for the Front Wheel Drive Vehicle Concept,” General Motors Engineering Journal Vol. 13, No. 1 (First Quarter 1966), pp. 18–21; Thomas J. Krieg and Harry H. Lyon, “Development of the Power Transmission System for the 1966 Toronado,” General Motors Engineering Journal Vol. 13, No. 2 (Second Quarter 1966), pp. 16–22; Michael Lamm, “Toro & Cord: So different and yet so much alike!” Special Interest Autos #35 (July-August 1976), reprinted in The Hemmings Book of Oldsmobiles: driveReports from Special Interest Autos, ed. Terry Ehrich (Bennington, VT: Hemmings Motor News, 2001), pp. 100-107; Todd Lassa, “Drive: 1966 Oldsmobile Toronado: Rule Breaker: 40 Years On, It’s Still the Most Radical Olds Ever,” Motor Trend October 2005, www.motortrend. com, accessed 22 October 2010; Richard M. Langworth, Illustrated Oldsmobile Buyer’s Guide (Osceola, WI: Motorbooks International, 1987); Jay Leno’s conversation with Dave North, Jay Leno’s Garage, 9 December 2007, www.jaylenosgarage. com, accessed 22 October 2010; Theodore L. Louckes and Charles L. Porter, “A Summary of the Toronado Engineering Test Program,” General Motors Engineering Journal Vol. 13, No. 2 (Second Quarter 1966), pp. 29–33; Karl Ludvigsen, The V-12 Engine: The Untold Inside Story of the Technology, Evolution, Performance and Impact of All V-12-Engined Cars (Sparkford, Yeovil, Somerset: Haynes Publishing, 2005); Donald MacDonald, “Developing the Toronado,” Motor Trend Vol. 17, No. 12 (December 1965), pp. 40-45; Steve Magnante, “Hurst Hairy Oldsmobile – Keeping the Legend Alive: The Hurst Hairy Olds Returns,” Hot Rod December 2002, www.hotrod. com, accessed 6 November 2010; John D. Malloy, “The Development of a Unitized Power Package for a Front Wheel Drive Vehicle,” General Motors Engineering Journal Vol. 13, No. 1 (First Quarter 1966), pp. 11–17; Mark J. McCourt and Jeff Koch, “Leading the Way,” Hemmings Classic Car #27 (December 2006), pp 22–29; Bob Merlis, “Collectible Classic: 1966-1967 Oldsmobile Toronado,” Automobile February 2009, www.automobilemag. com, accessed 26 October 2010; William L. Mitchell, “The Toronado Takes Shape,” General Motors Engineering Journal Vol. 13, No. 1 (First Quarter 1966), pp. 22–31; “Motor Trend Interview: John Beltz,” Motor Trend Vol. 22, No. 12 (December 1970), pp. 72-76, 92-93; “1966-1985 Oldsmobile Toronado,” Automotive Mileposts, n.d., automotivemileposts. com, accessed 10 November 2010; Jan P. Norbye and Jim Dunne, Oldsmobile 1946–1980: The Classic Postwar Years, 2nd ed. (Osceola, Wis.: Motorbooks International Publishers & Wholesalers, 1993); Oldsmobile Division of General Motors Corporation, Oldsmobile Toronado ad, LIFE Vol. 65, No. 5 (2 August 1968), p. 16, “1966 Oldsmobile: SPECS (Salesman’s Prices, Equipment, Color & Trims, Specifications)” [dealer literature] NCPP-873, October 1965; “1967 Oldsmobile: SPECS (Salesman’s Prices, Equipment, Color & Trims, Specifications)” [dealer literature], revised March 1967; “1969 Oldsmobile: Salesman’s Prices, Equipment, Color & Trims, Specifications” [dealer literature], October 1968; “1970 Oldsmobile: Salesman’s Prices, Equipment, Color & Trims, Specifications” [dealer literature], January 1970; “’68 Oldsmobile: Salesman’s Prices, Equipment, Color & Trims, Specifications” [dealer literature], revised January 1968; “Special Report on America’s Most Advanced Automobile” [brochure, ca. September 1965]; “Step Out Front in ’66 … in a Rocket Action Olds! Toronado: New one-of-a-kind car…engineered by Oldsmobile!” [advertisement], Car and Driver Vol. 11, No. 5 (November 1965), pp. 46–47; and “Toronado: For great car lovers” [brochure], August 1968; Ken Pilidis, Olds Faithful (the Oldsmobile Northern Lights Chapter newsletter) July 2009, p. 2; “Road Research Report: Olds Toronado,” Car and Driver Vol. 11, No. 5 (November 1965), pp. 29-35, 94-99; Herbert Shudliner, “Spotlight on Detroit,” Motor Trend Vol. 17, No. 4 (April 1965), p. 11; Francis E. Smith, “The Design, Development, and Production of the Toronado Body,” General Motors Engineering Journal Vol. 13, No. 1 (First Quarter 1966), pp. 38–55; Daniel Strohl, “1968 Oldsmobile Toronado,” Hemmings Classic Car No. 12 (September 2005), p. 102, and “Success! Cadillac’s OHC V-12 engine photos found,” Hemmings Blog, 14 April 2010, blog.hemmings. com, accessed 19 October 2010; Terry A. Tettens, “Development of a Body Ventilation System,” General Motors Engineering Journal Vol. 13, No. 1 (First Quarter 1966), pp. 32–37; Kris Trexler, “Steve & Matt Butcher’s 1967 Oldsmobile Toronado Deluxe,” North Texas Oldsmobile Club, n.d., clubs.hemmings. com/ clubsites/ ntexasoca/ images/ 1967_Oldsmobile_ ToronadoDeluxe.pdf, accessed 26 October 2010; “Unusual Toronados,” Toronado by Oldsmobile, n.d., www3.telus. net/ toronado/ unusual.html, accessed 1 November 2010; vistacruiser67, “1966 Oldsmobile Toronado Pike’s Peak Hill Climb 425 Rocket,” YouTube, https://youtu.be/ziYJVoaOeiI, uploaded 2 February 2008, accessed 10 November 2010; Andrew K. Watt and Jack R. Wallace, “A Summary of Advanced Design Studies for the Front Wheel Drive Toronado,” General Motors Engineering Journal Vol. 13, No. 2 (Second Quarter 1966), pp. 2–4; “Youngmobiles: Can-Am engines and other hot rockets,” Motor Trend Vol. 21, No. 10 (October 1969), reprinted in Oldsmobile Muscle Portfolio 1964-1971, ed. R.M. Clarke (Cobham, England: Brooklands Books Ltd., ca. 1999), pp. 96-99; the Oldsmobile Toronado Wikipedia® page (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oldsmobile_Toronado, accessed 13 November 2010); emails to the author from George Camp, Tom Falconer, Tom Matano, Richard Ruzzin, and Gary Smith, 11–28 November 2010; comments and emails to the author from David North, 18–21 November 2018; and comments made by former Oldsmobile engineer William Thomas on the earlier version of this article, 25 April to 29 April 2010.

Additional information on and driving impressions for the later Toronados came from Tony Assenza, “Driving Impression: 1990 new Cars: Oldsmobile Troféo: Better, but baffling,” Car and Driver Vol. 35, No. 4 (October 1989), pp. 72-74; Patrick Bedard, “Preview Test: 1986 Oldsmobile Toronado,” Car and Driver Vol. 31, No. 2 (August 1985), pp. 40-45; Jim Brokaw, “Almost a Limousine,” Motor Trend Vol. 22, No. 12 (December 1970), pp. 67-71, and “Toronado, Thunderbird, Grand Prix and Riviera: You can get cozy with that ‘personal luxury car’ if you’ve got $6000 to $8000,” Motor Trend Vol. 25, No. 6 (June 1973), reprinted in Buick Riviera Performance Portfolio 1963-1978, ed. R.M. Clarke (Cobham, England: Brooklands Books Ltd., ca. 2000), pp. 118–121, and “The Personal Luxury Cars,” Motor Trend Vol. 26, No. 3 (March 1974), reprinted in Thunderbird Performance Portfolio 1964-1976, ed. R.M. Clarke (Cobham, England: Brooklands Books Ltd., ca. 2000), pp. 129–132; Jim Dunne, “Detroit Spy Report,” Popular Mechanics Vol. 161, No. 11 (November 1990), pp. 114–115; “Inside Detroit,” Popular Mechanics Vol. 166, No. 4 (April 1989), p. 52; and “GM’s all-new luxury sedans,” Popular Science Vol. 227, No. 2 (August 1985), pp. 81-83; Jim Dunne and Ed Jacobs, “Plush mid-size coupes: GM’s new front-drive cars lead the way,” Popular Science Vol. 214, No. 3 (March 1979), pp. 32-38, 43; General Motors Corporation, “GM Design Staff Appointments” [press release], November 10, 1992; Wade Hoyt and Michael Lamm, “Detroit ’86: American Technology Takes Charge,” Popular Mechanics Vol. 162, No. 9 (September 1985), pp. 77–80; Michael Lamm, “Driving the ’79 General Motors Cars,” Popular Mechanics Vol. 150, No. 4 (October 1978), pp. 108–111, 236; “Toronado Owners Really Dig FWD but say Gas Mileage a Bummer,” Popular Mechanics Vol. 133, No. 6 (June 1970), pp. 118-121; “Two fwd giants: Both excel in prestige and gas guzzling,” and “What’s ahead for front-wheel drive?” Popular Mechanics Vol. 137, No. 4 (April 1972), pp. 100-107; Jim Richardson, “History of the 1978 Cadillac Eldorado Custom Biarritz Classic,” n.d., members.cox. net/phxjer/ eldo/history.htm, accessed 25 January 2011; Bill Sanders, “Luxury with a Flair,” Motor Trend Vol. 21, No. 2 (February 1969), pp. 74-85; and “Top Luxury for Pennies…” Road Test May 1972, reprinted in Cadillac Eldorado Performance Portfolio 1967-1978, ed. R.M. Clarke (Cobham, England: Brooklands Books Ltd., ca. 2000), pp. 90-95; and Gary Smith, “GM Styling Advanced Design and Pre-production Photos,” Dean’s Garage, 4 February 2010, deansgarage. com/2010/ gm-styling-images-from-the-early-%E2%80%9960s/, accessed 20 November 2010, and “1977 Buick Olds Studio Show Photos,” Dean’s Garage, 15 June 2009, deansgarage. com/2009/ 1977-buick-olds-studio-show-photos/, accessed 20 November 2010.

Additional background and technical details came from “Auto Brevity: Anti-Lock Brake Systems,” Automotive Mileposts, n.d., automotivemileposts. com, accessed 31 October 2010; Mike Covello, Standard Catalog of Imported Cars 1946-2002, Second Edition (Iola, WI: Krause Publications, 2001); “Photo Feature: 1977 Oldsmobile Toronado XSR Coupe,” Collectible Automobile Vol. 20, No. 1 (June 2003), pp. 44–47; and the Productioncars.com Book of Automobile Production and Sales Figures, 1945-2005 (N.p.: 2006).

Information on the GMC Motorhomes came from “bdub,” “Frequently Asked Questions: Information Resources for GMC Motorhome Owners,” 1999-2000, www.bdub. net, accessed 23 October 2010; Bill Bryant, “Story of a Classic: The GMC Motorhome, Part One,” Family Motor Coaching February 2004, pp. 58-61; “Story of a Classic: The GMC Motorhome, Part Two,” Family Motor Coaching March 2004, pp. 70-78; and “Story of a Classic: The GMC Motorhome, Part Three,” Family Motor Coaching April 2004, pp. 74-80; all are reprinted on the web (with the permission of the author) at www.bdub. net, accessed 15 November 2010; Patrick Flower, The GMC Motorhome Source, 15 October 2007, www.gmcmotorhome. com, accessed 23 October 2010; GMC Dixielanders, “The GMC Motorhome,” n.d., www.gmcdixielanders. org, accessed 22 October 2010; “GMC Motorhome,” Hot Wheels Wiki, n.d., hotwheels.wikia. com, accessed 15 November 2010; the “GMC Motor Home – Multi Purpose Vehicle” brochure, reprinted at www.bdub. net, accessed 23 October 2010; “GMC: the Hot Wheels RV,” Squob.com, 23 September 2008, squob. com, accessed 15 November 2010; Brian Heiler, “Barbie or Big Jim?” Plaid Stallions, 16 June 2016, plaidstallions.blogspot. com/2016/06/barbie-or-big-jim.html, accessed 17 April 2018, and “Vintage Barbie Love,” Plaid Stallions, 17 December 2013, plaidstallions.blogspot. com/2013/12/vintage-barbie-love.html, accessed 17 April 2018; Bob Kovacik, “GMC Motorhome: All this, and economy too,” Motor Trend Vol. 29, No. 10 (October 1977), pp. 77-78; Laura Moncur, “Barbie Star Traveler,” Pick Me! 10 February 2008, laura.moncur. org/archives/2008/02/10/barbie-star-traveler/, accessed 18 April 2018; and “Barbie Star Traveler: The Beginnings www.starling-travel. com/2012/02/01/barbie-star-traveler-the-beginnings-of-my-camper-obsession/, accessed 18 April 2018; Herbert Shuldiner and Jim Dunne, “Drive ‘Em Like a Car — Sleek New RVs Offer New Roadability and Engineering,” Popular Science Vol. 203, No. 2 (August 1973), pp. 78-79, 126; Stripes (director: Ivan Reitman; writers: Len Blum & Dan Goldberg and Harold Ramis; producers: Ivan Reitman and Dan Goldberg; United States: Columbia Pictures Industries, Inc., 1981; Extended Cut DVD, Sony Pictures Entertainment, 2005); “Stripes (1981),” Internet Movie Database, n.d., www.imdb. com/title/tt0083131/, accessed 23 October 2010; “World Land Speed Record for Motorhomes,” Cooperative Motor Works, 17 September 2006, www.gmccoop. com, accessed 15 November 2010); and the GMC Motorhome Wikipedia page (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GMC_motorhome, accessed 23 October 2010). Additional information on other Toronado-powered motorhomes came from “Hey, what is a Cortez anyway?” CortezCoach.com, 2010, www.cortezcoach. com, accessed 22 October 2010; and the Revconeers, “The Revcon Motorhome,” The Revconeers Chapter of the Family Motor Coach Association, 2010, revconeers. com, accessed 22 October 2010.



Add a Comment
  1. All that I can say is thanks for your website. I remember a couple of years ago a co worker told me that a friend of hers had driven her home in her well used Oldsmobile Trofeo. I was impressed that in it’s faded opulence this Olds was still doing sterling service.

  2. I saw a local dealer selling an empty shell version of the motor home in the late 70’s. Then whilr driving down to Florida to watch th 24 hour race at Daytona, saw one set up as a transporter, had a roll-up door in the rear. It had a Porsche in it.

  3. Does anyone know where the yellow 1977 Toronado XSR resides today?

  4. Hopefully, one of your followers will know. I think your site is a great idea!
    Take care and Good Luck!

  5. That was a nice article, reading about “Toro’s” brought back a lot of memories. I worked as a Tech for Oldsmobile shops back in the early days, the 1967 was the first model I worked on as a current year and I worked on them to the end. I especially loved the early years with the HOT optional engines, the later ones ran like a Lead Sled. The Toro and 442 ran about even as my favorite Oldsmobile’s….


  6. I have a 1969 Oldsmobile Toronado front wheel drive motorhome. Never seen anything like it! Can anyone tell me more about it? can send pics if nessessary.

    1. Hi Don, I worked on a number of GMC Motor homes that used the 455 Oldsmobile engine and the Toronado front drive unit but there were also several other manufactures who used the Oldsmobile FWD package to power their units. If you do a Google search for your brand and year you shouldn’t have a problem finding info about your vehicle. Cortez was another manufacture who used the Oldsmobile FWD. NASA actually used a Cortez to shuttle astronauts to the launch pad. Apparently there are still fans of the Cortez Motor home and parts are still sold by the companies owner, although no new units have been built for years. Search and you should find some info quite easily.


      1. I had thought from the research I did that Cortez didn’t adopt the Toronado powertrain until 1970 (although I’m no expert on motor homes, so I may be wrong in that!), but I’m sure there were at least a few earlier examples, including probably some cobbled-together shade-tree jobs. The UPP concept made a lot of sense for motor homes and vans: enough torque to haul a substantial load, compact enough to not eat up interior space, and not so exotic you couldn’t get parts for most of it. I imagine the biggest obstacle to motor home use was likely the price.

  7. I currently have a 1976 gmc motorhome at my property and would like some information on it i drove it 260 miles to my house it was sitting in storage for 3 years all i did was put a battery in it and set up a gas tank with a electric fuel pump and dtove it home

    1. Jerry,

      I’m not able to provide information on specific vehicles (I really have no idea), but there’s general information on the Motorhome in the text of the article.

    2. Has anyone contacted you yet with info ? If ot let me know we have a forum group and several clubs nationwide devoted to the GMC MH over 8000 are still running.

    3. Did virtually the same thing in Sept. Bought a 1976 GMC Eleganza II in Waxahachee, Tx. Been sitting at least 2 years. Washed it, new battery, electric fuel pump and ferry tank, and 1 new tire. Fired right up, lots of smoke, then drove to Lampassas. Brother, who has 4 of them, is still working on it. Looking forward to hitting the road with it.

  8. The Toronado died in 1986,the small 6 cylinder 1986 was grotesquely inferior to the great 1985 Toronado Caliente which was somewhat better than all the previous ones,the small one despite the gorgeous dashboard was not much more than an economy car,something affluent people disregard,it was gorgeous though compared to the contraptions being put out nowadays by all the manufacturers.
    The automobile is dying worldwide.


  10. I still have my 79 that I ordered new 350 runs as smooth as the day it left the dealership!

  11. Marty moore’s REVCON motor home repair parts in Calif.–I think in San De. OLD MAN BUT HAS A TON OF KNOWLEDGE & PARTS for old R.V’S

  12. Anyone have problems with headlights i don’t have power on my 1969 head lights. I tested. Each one. Ands works. Low beams. Have 3 point.
    But one om these have ground one broke
    So that affect. The service
    Anyone. Can help me out. Also power windos and power seat. Problems and solutions

    1. I can’t help with repairs or maintenance issues, sorry!

    2. I know that passing light is a little problem but whit a little fuse/ breaker/disjunctior is the problem solved!
      Good luck

  13. My husband was President of Revcon starting in 1976 and we loved the RV business and were involved with ElDorado/Honorbuilt Company from 1966-1976 when we moved to California. My family remembers being at the Dodger RV show and the Silver Bullet was a huge hit.

    1. I just picked up a 1975 Revcon. If you can share any pics or other info that would be great!

  14. Howdy just wanted to give you a quick heads up and let you
    know a few of the pictures aren’t loading properly. I’m not sure why but I think
    its a linking issue. I’ve tried it in two different browsers
    and both show the same results.

    maglia Roma

    1. Hmm, that’s very strange. I’m not experiencing that when I test it. Was the problem specific to this article, or did it occur on multiple pages?

      I have encountered a problem on certain articles where the WordPress media page (not normally accessible or visible to visitors) has disappeared or somehow broken without the associated image being gone, which creates a bizarre condition where the image loads, but also throws a 404 error that appears in the log. That doesn’t appear to be happening here, though.

      It may be a browser caching anomaly, where for some reason the page doesn’t completely load (due to a momentarily hiccup in the connection or browser lag), but then the browser has cached an incomplete version of that page and refuses to let go of it. That happens sometimes, and the only thing to be done about it is to clear the browser cache and try loading the page again. Since it’s a transient problem, it frequently has nothing to do with the actual page. It’s just an obnoxious side effect of the way modern browsers work.

  15. Nice story,but you have the design history wrong. don Schomer was a fine designer,but was not on this project.
    I had worked on the 66Toro with Olds chief Engineer John Belts who was then Olds Gen Manager for the 2 gen 71 Toro.
    He saw a scale model Eldorado proposal I did,and had me brought back from loan to Vaxhall in England.
    His first words to me were “we donot want another “sports” car like you did in66 ,think Eldorado- Lincoln
    The front end I wanted a
    Cord look, the two lower grills made cooling a Chalange!

    1. Mr. North,

      Thanks so much for your input — I have amended (and hopefully corrected) the text.

  16. That GM was going to have a motorhome was scary to the traditional manufacturers. There was an entire file cabinet in the Product Development area of Winnebago filled with everything they could get their hands on while the GMC was being developed. Ultimately, they really had nothing to worry about.

    GM had predicated their planning on an annual volume of 20,000 per year. GMC did not achieve that even as the total number built; they lost lots and lots of money per unit. GM had approached the motorhome in the same way that they did their regular automotive planning – huge tooling costs to get small part costs using big volumes to amortize the expenses.

    As a show of just how far off the mark GM’s volume projections were – Winnebago, across their 2 brands (Itasca was the second one) with a full line-up of both A class (box on wheels) and C class (van front) was on track to hit 20,000 units for the first time in its history up until the 2nd oil crisis.

    Because of the way the GMC was tooled it could not make all the length variations that became industry common during its production run. I also remember it as GMC was unable to do as many interior iterations as the rest of the industry.

    As enamored as everyone was/is about front wheel drive for the GMC, there were reported issues about it not being good in snowy conditions. A lot of the motorhome weight became rearward biased. This is why now one sees a lot of pusher configurations.

    1. (I took the liberty of correcting what I presume was a typo in the last paragraph your comment, in hopes of avoiding confusion.)

      Yes, that would make sense. Even if the UPP had been positioned behind the front seats, much of the laden weight would be well behind the powertrain, and acceleration or climbing a grade would shift it even more to the rear and off the drive wheels.

      The Motorhome seems like a classic example of the pitfalls of entering an established market segment that’s new to you: If you follow the pack, you may end up an also-ran in a field of established competitors who have a head start, and if you try to do something too different, you may find out the hard way there’s a reason why others don’t do that.

      I wonder if GMC might have had more luck creating a UPP-based chassis cab, aimed more at the custom van crowd. GMC had much more experience with the chassis-cab market, and it might have given more flexibility, perhaps offering standard van bodies in passenger and cargo configurations and partnering with another company to offer factory custom variations.

      1. In the 1970s both GM and Dodge were the primary suppliers of the cut away vans used for the C Class motorhomes. Same for the bare chassis used for the A Class.

        If GM’s annual production predictions had been more realistic then they would not have done their extremely sophisticated tooling and production techniques.

        For some reason it took the downsizing of the Eldo/Toro which meant the end of the high weight capable transaxle for finally pull the plug on their money loser. A great technical exercise but not justified by the balance sheet.

        1. What I meant was that I wonder what would have happened if GMC had created a UPP-based FWD chassis cab platform that could be used both (in extended form) for motorhomes and also for smaller vans and people-movers. GM had toyed with the idea of a FWD people-mover of one kind or another since the fifties, and Toronado buyers were always asking why the drivetrain didn’t find its way into some package where its virtues would count for more than a parlor trick. A Vandura with the UPP, for instance, might have been an interesting alternative to a RWD or 4WD van, and sharing portions of its basic chassis with a motorhome might have helped to spread the tooling costs around.

          To be clear, I don’t disagree that the Motorhome project was a bridge too far, and I suspect a FWD Vandura would have been at best a niche product like the contemporary Jeep Grand Wagoneer, rather than a runaway hit like the later Chrysler T-115 minivans, but the UPP was a fine concept for utility or people-mover duty that ended up being squandered in applications where it was either irrelevant or not really the right tool for the job.

  17. To anyone who may know, I’m seeking the schematics for the belt set up in my 1979 revcon. It’s the 454 fwd, and the belt attached to my alternator keeps falling off, since it was worked on recently. It is also inhibiting my power steering from engaging, though everything else seems in working order.

    1. I’m sorry, but this is not a good forum for seeking troubleshooting advice. I’m not a mechanic, and I can’t advise anyone on fixing their vehicles!

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